Comments on: When tagging doesn’t work - a comparison of two sites http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites Information architecture, interaction design and much more Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:44:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: vanderwal http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-548 vanderwal Wed, 28 Dec 2005 03:33:36 +0000 http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-548 Most tagging does not work, which I why myself and others were so fascinated with del.icio.us and flickr (flickr followed del.icio.us into tagging and did not do as good of a job). Fortunately others have learned what was done well and are moving to adopt the frameworks for good tagging tools (this is happening in on the web and in business and are finding success with their approaches). There are a few things that work to make tagging usable. The best approach is for sites or applications to have broad folksonomy tools, which allows for the consumer (with media like a podcast it would help to have the content publisher to add tags so to seed it for others to discover), the object to be distinct, the tags to be distinct from the object, and the tagger to be identified in a manner so to follow him or her. This give three distinct data points to follow and to use to find similar information. Another component is to have others like you in the community you are using tagging. Some communities will use vocabulary that is similar to yours or will tag things that are of interest to you. The use of vocabulary and subject matter that is similar are very important. Scaling these elements or scaling services is important. As Peter Morville was foolish for trying to find information in del.icio.us and Google and try to compare apples to apples, when the scales were all wrong (which was the problem Google had early on when I was playing with it in 1998, there was not scale compared to other search engines). We now are seeing much better patterns developing within del.icio.us that were only nascent a year ago, but the vocabulary and community become even more important to success for a person trying to find information or media in a larger system. Part of the Podcasting problem is confounded by the relative lack of people listening to podcasts. This is a genre that is still emerging. Tagging systems have their problems if not done well, but when there is a lack of media (compare the number of podcasts available to the media in Amazon) and lack of people tagging it you could get a rather poor showing. Most people who consume podcasts voraciously (more than 5 hours a week by my measure) seem to find the most success using word of mouth from their friends and peers. The community they already have is their filter and guide to new podcasts to listen to. Most tagging does not work, which I why myself and others were so fascinated with del.icio.us and flickr (flickr followed del.icio.us into tagging and did not do as good of a job). Fortunately others have learned what was done well and are moving to adopt the frameworks for good tagging tools (this is happening in on the web and in business and are finding success with their approaches).

There are a few things that work to make tagging usable. The best approach is for sites or applications to have broad folksonomy tools, which allows for the consumer (with media like a podcast it would help to have the content publisher to add tags so to seed it for others to discover), the object to be distinct, the tags to be distinct from the object, and the tagger to be identified in a manner so to follow him or her. This give three distinct data points to follow and to use to find similar information.

Another component is to have others like you in the community you are using tagging. Some communities will use vocabulary that is similar to yours or will tag things that are of interest to you. The use of vocabulary and subject matter that is similar are very important. Scaling these elements or scaling services is important. As Peter Morville was foolish for trying to find information in del.icio.us and Google and try to compare apples to apples, when the scales were all wrong (which was the problem Google had early on when I was playing with it in 1998, there was not scale compared to other search engines). We now are seeing much better patterns developing within del.icio.us that were only nascent a year ago, but the vocabulary and community become even more important to success for a person trying to find information or media in a larger system.

Part of the Podcasting problem is confounded by the relative lack of people listening to podcasts. This is a genre that is still emerging. Tagging systems have their problems if not done well, but when there is a lack of media (compare the number of podcasts available to the media in Amazon) and lack of people tagging it you could get a rather poor showing.

Most people who consume podcasts voraciously (more than 5 hours a week by my measure) seem to find the most success using word of mouth from their friends and peers. The community they already have is their filter and guide to new podcasts to listen to.

]]> By: Bill Harper http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-547 Bill Harper Wed, 14 Dec 2005 22:20:37 +0000 http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-547 Have you tried searching for podcasts with podscope(podscope.com)? It lets you do keyword searches on audio podcats. I'm not sure what podcasts it focuses on (sure it can't do all umpteen thousand of them), but it might be another way to find a podcast you'd like to listen to. (Of course, if you're after a podcast that's predominantly music, you might have trouble. "I'm looking for something that goes 'BOOM TSHK BOOM BOOM TSHK'.") Have you tried searching for podcasts with podscope(podscope.com)? It lets you do keyword searches on audio podcats. I’m not sure what podcasts it focuses on (sure it can’t do all umpteen thousand of them), but it might be another way to find a podcast you’d like to listen to.

(Of course, if you’re after a podcast that’s predominantly music, you might have trouble. “I’m looking for something that goes ‘BOOM TSHK BOOM BOOM TSHK’.”)

]]> By: Lou http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-546 Lou Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:55:40 +0000 http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-546 Yet another example of how the lack of specificity of tagging defeats tagging when it comes to information retrieval by groups. Donna, you might try what some of us have done with del.icio.us: find friends who share similar interests, and agree to a shared tag, like we did with "enterprise_IA". Yet another example of how the lack of specificity of tagging defeats tagging when it comes to information retrieval by groups. Donna, you might try what some of us have done with del.icio.us: find friends who share similar interests, and agree to a shared tag, like we did with “enterprise_IA”.

]]> By: Jan Korbel http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-545 Jan Korbel Tue, 13 Dec 2005 20:13:28 +0000 http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-545 Good point Donna. I use both the Odeo and ITC, like them both, and what you say about findability on Odeo is true. Just to be clear, I think we would agree, that the Odeo navigation is far from being unfuctional but certainly there is room for improvement. And of course the ITC site has the advantage in more homogenous content. BTW: some of the channel tips for Odeo BBC's From Our Own Correspondent NPR's Science Friday Good point Donna.
I use both the Odeo and ITC, like them both, and what you say about findability on Odeo is true. Just to be clear, I think we would agree, that the Odeo navigation is far from being unfuctional but certainly there is room for improvement. And of course the ITC site has the advantage in more homogenous content.

BTW: some of the channel tips for Odeo
BBC’s From Our Own Correspondent
NPR’s Science Friday

]]> By: Peter http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-544 Peter Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:55:55 +0000 http://maadmob.net/donna/blog/2005/when-tagging-doesnt-work-a-comparison-of-two-sites#comment-544 You're totally right. Odeo rocks, but findability wise, nothing. I have the same challenge with http://mefeedia.com: findability for videoblogs. It's though, and the site still needs a LOT of work, even though it is already the best place on the web to find videoblogs. You’re totally right. Odeo rocks, but findability wise, nothing. I have the same challenge with http://mefeedia.com: findability for videoblogs. It’s though, and the site still needs a LOT of work, even though it is already the best place on the web to find videoblogs.

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